From Prince to Pauper: The Scoop that Took the Crown

An interview with Sam McAlister

“At its best, journalism is able to do something very special, which is to fearlessly speak truth to power.”

This is an interview about an interview — the interview that exposed a royal scandal and ignited public outrage.

I was fortunate enough to secure an audience with Sam McAlister, the content producer behind the notorious 2019 Prince Andrew exclusive. During her time working for BBC Newsnight, Sam scooped a succession of hard-hitting exposés as well as a BAFTA nomination.

Her first book, Scoops: Behind the Scenes of the BBC’s Most Shocking Interviews, was under embargo before publication (14 July 2022). It contains content that was highly confidential… until now.

Your book was destined to make a splash, but it’s quite something to find out that it’s going to be made into a feature film! Did the news come as a surprise to you?

I’ve been keeping it under wraps for months! Fortunately, we were able to coordinate with the production companies, Lighthouse and Voltage TV. They kindly agreed to release the film news on the day I published Scoops, which gave it a massive lift. How lucky am I to have my book optioned as a film? It’s a debut author’s dream come true, but a double dream to have it announced on the same day as the book launch.

The film, Scoop, will tell the story behind the Prince Andrew exposé. It’s obviously based on and named after Scoops, but how much of your book is dedicated to that particular interview?

I knew that it would be the biggest hook for readers. I wrote Scoops on the assumption that some people might only read the Prince Andrew chapters, because that was the most secret content. But now, for the first time, everyone can relive my story from inside that very room.

Prince Andrew probably takes up about 20% of the book. The rest is about the other amazing interviews that got me there — the story of my career. I figured that readers might start at the end and hopefully go back to enjoy the rest, so I structured the book with that in mind.

Do you get a say in the casting? Which actor would you choose to play you?

During my interview on Lorraine this morning, Lorraine Kelly suggested Cameron Diaz! So, we’ve set the bar pretty high. Obviously, if Cameron is available, I’d be totally comfortable with that!

Publishing is a whole new world to me. I left the BBC about 10 or 11 months ago and started writing my book from scratch. Until then, I’d only ever written a legal opinion and had never published so much as an article. And now I’ve accidentally found myself in the film industry — another world I know nothing about. I don’t know if I’ll get any say in it, but I hope I’m allowed to at least watch the casting process.

You scored several high-profile interviews during your time at Newsnight, including the likes of Bill Clinton, Justin Trudeau, Julian Assange, Elon Musk, Sheryl Sandberg and Eric Schmidt. What was your most surreal experience?

Aside from the Prince Andrew interview, my most surreal experience was visiting Julian Assange inside the Embassy of Ecuador. The beauty of being a producer is that you become an ‘experience billionaire’, witnessing what happens behind-the-scenes before the on-air footage.

Frankly, the content of that interview didn’t set the world alight. But to be one of only a handful of journalists allowed inside the embassy, to see where Assange had been living for all those years, to meet him in person and feel his limp handshake (it really was the weirdest handshake ever!), that’s the kind of experience that’s so surreal you have to pinch yourself. Producers get an insight into the secret world behind the people you see on the news; that was the part I enjoyed the most.

It sounds like a completely different world! I suppose you can’t imagine it until you’re there, and afterwards you wonder, ‘Did that actually just happen?’

Oh, absolutely! Seconds before an interview, you’re wandering the streets and thinking, ‘What’s that person doing?’ They’re probably just walking their dog or going to get a coffee from Pret. You know where you’re going, but they don’t know where you’re going.

It’s surreal because you carry the importance of your job with you all the time, but you can’t tell anyone about most of it; you have to remain discreet and professional. There’s a lot of content that never made it into my book. I was living a double life as Mum/Sam, with my day-to-day responsibilities, and a producer working with people in tricky, confidential situations.

That must be incredibly difficult. How does it affect family interactions? Do your close family and friends respect that you have to keep some information to yourself?

Absolutely. My best friend also works in journalism and TV, but I also have a lot of friends outside the industry. We have what we call ‘the circle of trust’: a mutual understanding that we can talk about anything between ourselves, as long as the information goes no further.

Sometimes you’re just bursting to tell someone, but the Prince Andrew scoop was a real challenge because we had to keep such a small circle of trust; I couldn’t even tell my immediate family. If any information was leaked, the trust between Buckingham Palace and us would be broken and we feared we’d lose the interview. So, sometimes you can chat about work and sometimes you have to keep quiet.

Journalism is a very competitive, time-sensitive profession. What’s the secret to beating other broadcasters or newspapers to an exclusive?

It’s a combination of 3 things. The first is good old-fashioned speed. People assume it’s easy to secure an interview about a new book, like Michelle Obama’s autobiography, but in reality there’s vicious competition over every high-profile author.

The second thing is courtesy and enthusiasm. No matter who you’re dealing with, you need to show an appropriate level of enthusiasm. You should research your bid so you can demonstrate curiosity and understanding about the person. When you get in touch, make sure that you spell everything correctly.

The mistake that a lot of people make is sending a generic, cut-and-pasted email. It’s insulting! I’m always looking for the sweet spot, so I would collate all the information needed to put myself in their shoes and work out — in both commercial and human terms — what would make the difference between a ‘yes’ and a ‘no’. It was never about what I wanted, that was easy; I wanted the interview. This is a rare skill because most people don’t even consider it, so I think that’s what gave me a competitive edge.

Lastly, you need persistence. I was often told ‘no’ at the beginning, but I would always go back and ask, ‘Why?’ That’s one of the most important tools of the trade. I take rejection very well, which is crucial because my bids were relentlessly rejected; convincing people to appear on Newsnight was an extremely difficult job because it’s high-stakes and low-benefit. Being persistent and able to recalibrate your bid before trying again — as well as being nice to work with — are hugely important qualities in this career.

You’ve been described as a ‘booker extraordinaire’ and a ‘master of persuasion’. Did you develop these skills while training as a criminal defence barrister?

It definitely helped to formalise my skills. I don’t want to give the impression that I’m a working-class hero, but my parents left school at 14 and lived on a council ‘slum’ estate in Stoke Newington. They couldn’t read or write, but they were market traders with an entrepreneurial gift of the gab. I’m lucky enough that my parents made enough money to send me to university — the first person in my family to go. This extraordinary opportunity meant I could become a barrister.

So, those skills are probably 90% market trader gift of the gab; the other 10% comes from the high-end education that I was lucky to receive. My upbringing taught me to be charming and not take ‘no’ for an answer in a professional setting. As I say in the book, my mum taught me to talk to princes and paupers — although she probably didn’t mean it literally! It wouldn’t matter whether I was in a cell with an alleged triple murderer, visiting the Royals at Buckingham Palace or talking to a homeless person on the street — I’d treat them all the same.

That’s such a valuable skill to have. Your childhood probably required a lot of resilience, which you’ve clearly applied to your career. I’m also curious about the impact of being a single mother. How did you balance family commitments with a job as demanding as journalism?

I’m really proud of myself. My childhood wasn’t difficult in comparison to most people’s; it was my mum and dad who had a rough time. But, after my marriage ended, I was raising my son on my own. His father is involved, but the main responsibility falls upon me as a mother. My job didn’t provide adequate resources to pay for childcare, so my mum helped out when she could. I had to decide between being a parent first and worker second, or vice versa. It’s a difficult decision for so many women, but it’s a personal choice so I don’t pass judgement. I wanted to spend more time with my son than in an office.

Ironically, working in news journalism was the perfect fit because my part-time role at Newsnight involved 2 hideously long days — exhausting, terrifying, exciting and wonderful — followed by 5 days off, feeling jet lagged. I only needed to pay for childcare once a week and my mum kindly helped on the other day. Otherwise, I would have been in the invidious position that so many parents — and particularly women — find themselves in, of having to sacrifice a job I loved because I needed more money to support my child.

Unfortunately, it’s a decision that a lot of people have to make, but you seem content with your choice. You managed to have a successful career as well, which is admirable.

I feel very lucky. I could be talking to the Chancellor of the Exchequer one day, and then be in a sandpit the next. We didn’t have a car or go on holidays, but we would go outside to look at trees and play in puddles. We had that precious thing that money can’t buy: time together. For me, that was worth every possible sacrifice. I was fortunate enough to have an exciting job and supportive bosses who were compassionate about my situation.

It’s all about finding balance, setting boundaries and recognising what’s actually important.

I’m not sure I had boundaries! The job was 24/7, so I would end up taking a call from the White House while playing in a sandpit. One day, my phone rang while I was in the shower, so I had a conversation — in my birthday suit — with someone working for Sol Campbell.

You always have to take the call, which is something that other interview producers will understand. Since I left the industry, I’ve really enjoyed being able to go to the gym, put my phone in a locker and swim for an hour without fretting over missed calls.

It sounds really tough! I’m keen to know how the media industry has changed over the last 10–20 years. How do you think the concept of ‘news’ and the practice of journalism have evolved with the rise of social media?

Social media has both benefits and disadvantages. I think the biggest challenge is that we are instantly accountable, often in a vindictive way. Unfortunately, I’ve noticed that public vitriol and cruelty fall especially hard on female presenters — judging their clothes, appearance or accent.

To some extent, social media has diminished traditional journalism, which some people think is great because it fosters more engagement. However, it does blur the boundaries between a trained journalist and the average person posting pictures or videos out of context. This creates trust issues, especially at a time when public faith in the mainstream media is falling apart. There’s also a lack of awareness about how hard journalists work to share impartial information.

Telling the truth is so important nowadays, amid widespread concerns about fake news. In an ideal world, the media would function independently of church and state. In reality, this is often not the case. To what extent do groups and individuals with political, social or financial power influence the British media? How does this compare to superpowers like the US and Russia?

If we consider the freedom of the press as a continuum, with Russia on one side and the US and UK on the other, we’re talking about very different beasts. I think that 99.9% of journalists in the US and Britain are trying to produce fair, truthful content. Unfortunately, it also depends on the individual. Human beings are not blank canvases; our mindsets are dependent on our experiences, the circles we mix in and the people we meet.

Some misunderstandings between the public and the media come down to tight social circles and groupthink within the industry. You will often find journalists saying the same thing on Twitter about certain issues, or else there’s a binary opposition. In what we might call ‘the real world’ the conversation is completely different, which is why there’s a disconnect between what the media focuses on and what the country cares about. I’ve always been very careful to avoid losing contact with the outside world.

Can you offer 3 key takeaways from Scoops?

First, my book reveals the untold story of an interview that would not have happened if I were not lucky enough to be the interviews producer for Newsnight.

Second, if you’re interested in the media and want to learn about how everything is put together, Scoops is an extremely honest account of what happens before an audience watches those extraordinary moments on screen.

Finally, on a less pretentious level, this is a human story. I was standing 15 feet behind Prince Andrew, but I’m also a single mum working part-time, just trying to do my best in a profession that never stopped feeling new. So, I invite you to sit beside me in the Ecuadorian Embassy and in Buckingham Palace, talking to these fascinating people. We’ll be side by side, all the way.

It’s remarkable that this interview only exists because those opportunities slotted into place. Otherwise, Prince Andrew might still be at large.

What’s astonishing is the profound effect that the interview had. But let’s not forget the most important people in the story: Virginia Roberts and the other victims who alleged gross crimes against Jeffrey Epstein (who was clearly a prolific paedophile) and Ghislaine Maxwell (now convicted). As for Prince Andrew’s part in this sorry tale, there would have been a very different ending but for this interview.

In a small way, it opened the door to the possibility of some kind of resolution for the people who suffered at their hands. Obviously, those brave people went through years of litigation, but I think the interview helped to achieve such a historic outcome. Ghislaine Maxwell was arrested after it aired, and Prince Andrew is no longer an active member of the Royal Family.

It reminds me of the #MeToo movement and the role that investigative journalism played in exposing the truth about Harvey Weinstein. That felt like a pivotal moment for so many of his accusers, as well as the women who were fearful of speaking out.

At its best, journalism is able to do something very special, which is to fearlessly speak truth to power. It doesn’t happen all the time, but the Prince Andrew interview was the epitome of that. Emily Maitlis is a fearless journalist who did a brilliant job, alongside a fearless negotiator like myself — if you read the book, you’ll discover some of the unusual ways that I like to do business. Not forgetting, of course, a fearless broadcasting organisation that granted us an hour of prime-time television to show the world something that had a profound impact on the future of the British monarchy.

To stay up-to-date with news about the book and upcoming film, follow Sam on Twitter.